Comments on: The Butterfly Learner: chaotic learning http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/ about open content, open research, Open University, open anything, ... Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:33:18 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Is this course chaotic or complex? « Jenny Connected? http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-174 Is this course chaotic or complex? « Jenny Connected? Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:02:38 +0000 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-174 [...] is also an interesting post on  Patrick McAndrew’s Padded Thoughts blog about chaos in relation to [...] [...] is also an interesting post on  Patrick McAndrew’s Padded Thoughts blog about chaos in relation to [...]

]]> By: Visitor365 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-39 Visitor365 Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:08:22 +0000 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-39 Your site found in Google: <a href="http://google.com/search?q=jla" rel="nofollow">position867</a> Your site found in Google: position867

]]> By: Visitor893 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-38 Visitor893 Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:08:19 +0000 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-38 I have visited your site 804-times I have visited your site 804-times

]]> By: Patrick http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-15 Patrick Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:17:56 +0000 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-15 I think subversion is happening all the time and quite rightly so. The impact of more online and open courses though means that subversion can spread more quickly. So online courses operate at the cusp of chaos without the stability imposed by face to face presence. This can be a good thing as options open up for different ways forward if choices really do bifurcate and life gets more interesting. Or it could just be a mess. Your example is of a very nice alternative operating behind the scenes. I think subversion is happening all the time and quite rightly so. The impact of more online and open courses though means that subversion can spread more quickly. So online courses operate at the cusp of chaos without the stability imposed by face to face presence. This can be a good thing as options open up for different ways forward if choices really do bifurcate and life gets more interesting. Or it could just be a mess. Your example is of a very nice alternative operating behind the scenes.

]]> By: Gill http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-11 Gill Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:17:50 +0000 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-11 "should we enforce posting through assessment or just let things flow. Anyway we changed our assessment rules over a couple of years and had some nice results: assess and get lots of shallow posts, don’t assess and get deeper contributions." This rang a bell for me. I did three online courses and my experience was that some people enjoyed the conferences and got alot out of them, posting deeply reflective posts. Others were less taken with the collaborative model of learning and avoided posting. Some were initially a little nervous and were either encouraged by the frequent, confident posters, or put off. Not sure how to effect a change other than the superficial one you describe, Patrick. Although I suspect that more scaffolding from fellow learners is the answer. Once learners feel a part of a group, I think social factors come into play which may help. As for the chaotic butterfly learner who does what he/she wants with the learning materials. I was on one course, I and three other learners from other tutor groups wanted to collaborate cross-group. However, due to the organisational headache that would give the poor tutors, we were told that we couldn't do this. .....so we went underground :) We collaborated "behind the scenes" via email. Whenever anything got posted or discussed in either group, whoever was in that tutor group would simply email it to the others and we carried on the collaborative discussion by email. I love the concept of the butterfly learner who subverts learning materials to suit his or her own ends :) Trouble is, the course designers may never be aware that it happened. “should we enforce posting through assessment or just let things flow. Anyway we changed our assessment rules over a couple of years and had some nice results: assess and get lots of shallow posts, don’t assess and get deeper contributions.”

This rang a bell for me. I did three online courses and my experience was that some people enjoyed the conferences and got alot out of them, posting deeply reflective posts. Others were less taken with the collaborative model of learning and avoided posting. Some were initially a little nervous and were either encouraged by the frequent, confident posters, or put off. Not sure how to effect a change other than the superficial one you describe, Patrick. Although I suspect that more scaffolding from fellow learners is the answer. Once learners feel a part of a group, I think social factors come into play which may help.

As for the chaotic butterfly learner who does what he/she wants with the learning materials. I was on one course, I and three other learners from other tutor groups wanted to collaborate cross-group. However, due to the organisational headache that would give the poor tutors, we were told that we couldn’t do this.

…..so we went underground :) We collaborated “behind the scenes” via email. Whenever anything got posted or discussed in either group, whoever was in that tutor group would simply email it to the others and we carried on the collaborative discussion by email.

I love the concept of the butterfly learner who subverts learning materials to suit his or her own ends :) Trouble is, the course designers may never be aware that it happened.

]]> By: Nigel http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-9 Nigel Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:30:10 +0000 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-9 I am called upon to talk about OpenLearn from time to time - usually to groups of educators eager to grab quality materials from wherever they can. I use the term "Glen Miller design". I imagine a course being created from separate modules (learning objects anyone?) strung together with locally provided context and assessment - a string of pearls. Would this looser assembly of gobbets of learning meet the idea of "design"? Does it offer enough space for chaotic learning? Might less confident learners (and educators!) flounder if there is less scaffolding? I am called upon to talk about OpenLearn from time to time – usually to groups of educators eager to grab quality materials from wherever they can. I use the term “Glen Miller design”. I imagine a course being created from separate modules (learning objects anyone?) strung together with locally provided context and assessment – a string of pearls.

Would this looser assembly of gobbets of learning meet the idea of “design”? Does it offer enough space for chaotic learning? Might less confident learners (and educators!) flounder if there is less scaffolding?

]]> By: Patrick McAndrew http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-6 Patrick McAndrew Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:12:10 +0000 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-6 Thank you Alan & Nigel, I have to agree with both of you! I certainly feel on weaker ground for Butterfly Punctuation, after all every time you try to test out these ideas the Butterfly Learners are waiting to mess up results. Probably should have left it out but such small changes are what makes me think that capturing all everything in one great learning design will never give consistent results, though for human factors rather than typographic! What the consequences are is the interesting point: should we abandon learning design as pointless? My feeling is no as the framework of the designs can help spark ideas and serve as an aid to communication, but perhaps we need to avoid getting bogged down in detail. My instant reaction is also that competences and learning outcomes do not feel like the solution: do we really believe these are the same for everybody? Does it matter if they aren't? Moving into a more chaotic approach on the other hand does feel interesting and to offer something. Only problem is I am not too sure what it means :-). Thank you Alan & Nigel,
I have to agree with both of you! I certainly feel on weaker ground for Butterfly Punctuation, after all every time you try to test out these ideas the Butterfly Learners are waiting to mess up results. Probably should have left it out but such small changes are what makes me think that capturing all everything in one great learning design will never give consistent results, though for human factors rather than typographic!

What the consequences are is the interesting point: should we abandon learning design as pointless? My feeling is no as the framework of the designs can help spark ideas and serve as an aid to communication, but perhaps we need to avoid getting bogged down in detail. My instant reaction is also that competences and learning outcomes do not feel like the solution: do we really believe these are the same for everybody? Does it matter if they aren’t?

Moving into a more chaotic approach on the other hand does feel interesting and to offer something. Only problem is I am not too sure what it means :-) .

]]> By: Nigel G http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-5 Nigel G Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:35:03 +0000 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-5 I'm fascinated by this as I've seen the Finbar Factor first-hand year on year. I'm less convinced by the Butterfly Punctuation though. I think it's probably a conceit to think that many readers are deeply moved by minor punctuation changes :-) I'm more interested in how we can move the furniture back to give more space for this/these chaotic learning/learners. Is this another part of the current trend (fad?) for "democratisation"? (Can I use that word without also saying "Web 2.0"?) Are we looking at moving even further away from the idea that "teachers" mediate and control learning? I’m fascinated by this as I’ve seen the Finbar Factor first-hand year on year. I’m less convinced by the Butterfly Punctuation though. I think it’s probably a conceit to think that many readers are deeply moved by minor punctuation changes :-)

I’m more interested in how we can move the furniture back to give more space for this/these chaotic learning/learners. Is this another part of the current trend (fad?) for “democratisation”? (Can I use that word without also saying “Web 2.0″?) Are we looking at moving even further away from the idea that “teachers” mediate and control learning?

]]> By: AJ Cann http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-4 AJ Cann Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:49:40 +0000 http://openpad.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/the-butterfly-learner-chaotic-learning/#comment-4 A pragmatic answer to such concerns would be to say, "Let's stop worrying so much about learning design and concern ourselves more with competence-based learning outcomes". Unfashionable, but if learning/learners really is/are chaotic, probably the only possible response. We know we can't stop hurricanes/floods, but we can minimize the impact of the damage. A pragmatic answer to such concerns would be to say, “Let’s stop worrying so much about learning design and concern ourselves more with competence-based learning outcomes”.
Unfashionable, but if learning/learners really is/are chaotic, probably the only possible response. We know we can’t stop hurricanes/floods, but we can minimize the impact of the damage.

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